All interviews were taped and documented.  They are available through the Reference Department of the Teaneck Public Library.  The Library is not responsible for the accuracy of the statements nor does it necessarily endorse the opinions expressed.

NARRATOR: Milton Bell
INTERVIEWER: Alice Hecht
DATE OF INTERVIEW:    (Unknown - no backup with this tape)
TRANSCRIBER: Jackie Kinney (12/1985)

Dr. Bell, I want to know that you, of many people in town, but perhaps one of the very special people in town, are going to be part of our Oral History of Teaneck. Now we will tape your comments and I promise you that anything you say, you will be allowed to edit before it is turned over to anybody else in any way you wish to edit it. You understand that?

(N) Yes, I do.

(I) Dr. Bell, tell me, why did you move to Teaneck? Why did you choose Teaneck rather than Ridgewood or Long Island?

(N) Marilyn and I lived in Bergenfield when we were first married. We had bought a little cottage, I guess you might call it, on Dudley Drive in Bergenfield and we lived there while I went to dental school. I was married before I went to dental school. Marilyn put me through school. And as part of working our way through school, Marilyn and I both got jobs teaching at the Teaneck Jewish Community Center. We both taught Sunday school at that time. Marilyn taught the kindergarten and I taught the sixth grade. And that helped us to get through school. We started in 1947 at the Teaneck Jewish Community Center. That's prior to the time that they expanded, they just had their, they had just moved into their little auditorium which is now called the Manny Weiss Auditorium, in their smaller auditorium. The old school had a balcony in that auditorium. Marilyn's class with 60 children on that auditorium balcony and I taught sixth grade, two sessions, they had an afternoon and a morning session. At that time, they had about 800/900 children in the school as a Sunday school.

(I) What year was this?

(N) 1947/1948. And we had moved into Bergenfield at that time. It was the only type of dwelling that we could afford. Those were the days where if you wanted an apartment, you had to buy the furniture in the apartment and pay someone under the table to get an apartment so we had looked around and having lived in Cliffside Park for a year, we came upon these little homes that sold at that time for $11,750 and it was under the G.I. Bill so that we were able to afford, and I think our payments were $60 and change a month and we bought the house. It was just the two of us and I studied and did all of my work there and Marilyn went into the city with me daily. She worked in the city. Plus the G.I. Bill of Rights, that's how we lived for the first four years of our marriage. Then, when Steven was born, 1951, I opened my practice in New Milford. But we had many friends in Teaneck because we were teaching in Teaneck. Many of our younger acquaintances and family and so on and we had observed Teaneck through those four years that we had lived in Bergenfield and we selected Teaneck because of the school system, quite frankly, because of the reputation of Teaneck as a very fine residential community and so when Larry was born in 1952 and we could not get a second crib into the baby's room because it was such a small cottage, and I had already established my practice in New Milford at 1033 River Road with the New Milford Physicians Group with Dr. Elfing by the way who was a resident and practitioner in Teaneck as well. I had become very friendly with Dr. Elfing. In fact, Dr. Elfing brought me in and proposed me as a member of the Kiwanis Club of Teaneck at that time. So we, at that time, driving into Teaneck from Bergenfield along Windsor Road they were building four new homes. I remember Goodman & Godera built the homes. I think the only resident that still lives in one of those homes is Dr. Martin Bordman who is a physician and dermatologist, practices out of town, but a very... his wife and he were active, fairly active in the Jewish Community Center where we were teaching and we were their next door neighbors and Max Hanson owned a house and there was another neighbor, the Katz, and the Gebrows in the next house so we bought that house and we fixed it up and one of the reasons we picked that house was that it was close to Whittier School, our children could walk to school, and we had purchased an additional lot from the town which gave us a nice square 100 x 100 yard. It was a very, very lovely house. It had two bedrooms on the main level and we finished the attic with two more bedrooms for our children as they were growing up. Moving in with Steven and Larry and then we had Jerry was born also in Dumont actually, the hospital in Dumont, New Jersey on what's the name of that street, it has a funny name. I forgot the name but the hospital is no longer in existence. But Dr. Elfing from Teaneck was one of our first friends. He was also the police surgeon in town. But through Dr. Elfing, I started practice in New Milford because he was the motivator, the moving force that established the New Milford Physicians Group and he delivered my first son. So between Dr. Elfing and Marilyn worked for a man who lived in Teaneck. He worked for Colonial Coffee. His name was Fred Friesman. And it is a small world because he was the brother-in-law of Sully Pressberger who was the chief sexton at the Teaneck Jewish Community Center as well so we knew all these people and we became active at Beth Sholom as well because we lived near Beth Sholom so we had dual membership at the Teaneck Center and Beth Sholom and where we had taught, Barry Shaffer was the cantor and he was then ordained a rabbi, he started Beth Sholom with a splinter group from the Center and since we knew him as a teacher at the Center, we joined both. We were friendly with the split group and the old group and we were very active in our center. Marilyn was very active originally in Bergenfield O.R.T. and then we became active at Beth Sholom and the Teaneck O.R.T. She immediately was in all of the shows. In fact she and I have many pictures of the old days when we appeared in shows together at Beth Sholom. I was the lead in BOYFRIEND. Marilyn had a minor part at that time. But then she became the star and I had all the minor parts thereafter. As you know, she conducted either, directed many shows at the Center for the War Veteran groups in which I was active and for the Center as well and there was a whole series of shows that she was active in and produced and directed and acted in. She starred in many of the shows for the Center.

(I) Roughly what year, what span of years was this?

(N) Well we moved into Teaneck in 1952 and we lived on Windsor Road until 1959 when we built this house.

(I) So that was in these years that you did the shows?

(N) Right. We did all of the shows. Marilyn continued thereafter but I got active as my children grew up. Marilyn of course was active immediately got active in the P.T.A. She was a member of the Whittier School P.T.A. I am trying to think of the wonderful principal over there for many years. Mrs. Hoke. And she ran a very tight ship I remember and was very proud of her school and we were very proud that our children attended kindergarten there and attended school there and then when Gerry was born, in about 1958, they built Temple Emeth next door to my house which was at 1636 Windsor Road and one day a committee came to visit us at our home and told us that they were buying our house. That's literally how they put it. They didn't ask us if we were selling but they told us they were buying our house. This is probably a little early in 1958. And after throwing them out, once or twice, I saw that they were really serious about it. At that time, their rabbi was Rabbi Trachtenberg who was the renouned rabbi from the Reformed movement and a very fine gentleman and finally we made a deal. They gave me time to find a new home and I had moved into Teaneck and my first practice in Teaneck was on Teaneck Road, I THINK it was 1498 Teaneck Road, near the Carvel stand, across the street from the Carvel and I had upstairs a very, very lovely office there which I had built when I had moved out of Physicians Group in 1953 after my practice grew quite considerably in 1952/53. Towards the end of 1954, unfortunately, there was a tremendous fire and destroyed my office so I practiced for a short time with Dr. Victor on Cedar Lane. I used his office on off hours to tide me over and in the interim, I built a new office on 154 West Englewood Avenue.

{I) Now where is 154?

(N) That's on the corner of West Englewood Avenue and Queen Anne Road. It was at that office that I was practicing when Temple Emeth committeemen came to me and said they wanted my house so what happened was I had been active in the Teaneck City Club in those years from 1952 on to 1958 and I was active in the Kiwanis Club, I don't remember what year but I was president of the Kiwanis Club as well and it was a great, great club. We had some very outstanding members including Al Barnes who was the dentist on Queen Anne Road and Henry Molder who was a fixture in Teaneck, an old timer whose son still has a fleet of trucks running around and they're the plumbers of Teaneck I would say as far as Henry was concerned. He was a great guy. We had some very fine ministers like George Delorder who is a past president of the Kiwanis Club when, I was a member of it and we had others. Stuart Litwin, physician, ophthalmologist, past president of the Club. We had many people from the school system who were members of the Kiwanis Club and the City Club as well.

(I) Do you remember who? 

(N) The principal of Ben Franklin was a handsome guy, it will come to me and I will give you the name. The principal of Bryant School was a member. Principal of Eugene Field School, became the principal, he was the principal in years following, he became a member of the Club. We had many school people on the board. I can't think of their names. I've drawn a blank. But I'll get all the names for you. Aubrey Sher who was an administrator and when he became an administrator was a member of the Club. We used to get the superintendents to speak to the Kiwanis Club because we supported the town. We gave scholarship money to the school system and that was my early involvement through the City Club and through Kiwanis and scouting as well and then there was quite a to-do in town as we approached, we moved into town, into Queen Anne Road when we bought the property and I combined my home and office at 154 West Englewood Avenue and in March of 1960, on St. Paddy's Day, we moved into our present residence at 765 Queen Anne Road. The office, the idea being I wanted a home and office together but I wanted two separate entrances so we designed this house and the home residence is 211 Chadwick Road although it is one building and I can move into the office. Then after the first three years living on Queen Anne Road, our children were now going to the Eugene Field School and we had that lovely lady who was the principal there, she was a tough gal, I have to look up all the names.

(I) It will come to you. That's all right. Or we can put them in.

(N) I'll get the names. Marilyn will remember them too. But our children, now, Jerry had started school in West Englewood. Now the three children were switched over to the Eugene Field School. I can't think of his name. He was Steven's sixth grade teacher and then he became principal later on. Lewis, Art Lewis. They had great teachers. We were very well involved in the P.T.A. and so on and I was involved with the kids when they were in Cub Scouts and then Boy Scouts, as they were growing up and so on and there was quite a to-do, called down to the P.T.A. because of the problems with integration at the time and various systems that were tried or proposed by the then Board of Education and including voluntary transfers and things of that sort and all of the voluntary plans never really worked out and didn't seem fair to those others who were left behind or just to the volunteers seeking to integrate by having to be bused or transported into other districts and so on. And I was fairly well aware of what was going on because we had quite a few people in the Club, every Tuesday lunch was the Teaneck City Club and every Thursday lunch was the Kiwanis Club so you were involved and by the way, those were very good vehicles where people within the township got to meet people from the township administration, the old township manager used to come to the City Club and we had people from the then budding Fairleigh Dickinson

(I) Excuse me, you say the old township manager.

(N) Before Werner Schmid. Prior to Werner Schmid, Paul Volcker and then we had, and people like Clarence Brett used to come down.

(I) Well Paul Volcker is the father of the now Secretary of the Treasury.

(N) Right. And we had Clarence Brett used to come, I am talking about the old timers, going back in the late 50s, early 60s. From the Board of Education as well and of course some of my new people like Seymour Herr who is a friend through the Center and he was the past president of the Center after Matty Feldman finally gave up. Matty was an interminable president, they thought they'd never get rid of him. And we were active in the veterans groups as well as the Sisterhood and the P.T.A. but the City Club and Kiwanis was a very good vehicle to meet people from other denominations and from all walks of life within the community. Whether they be professional people or people that were in the trades and storekeepers and things of that sort and it was a very nice way and we used to meet down at the old Casa Manor in those days and Emil Feld was a gem of a guy who owned the Casa Manor. In fact he was a patient of mine and when he was ill and needed dentistry, I used to take my instruments and go up over the restaurant and treat him and John Boniello who used to be his manager and owned the restaurant on Route 4 was a very gracious host and always stood in for Emil Feld when he was sick in the final days and many a time I had lunch with him privately in his private suite over the old restaurant in the Casa Manor as well. But in any event, it was an opportunity to meet people, to be involved with the town and the politics and so on and we went and we sat in on the old boards of education meetings which at that time used to meet at the high school. They had a board room in the high school and the board room started to get a little tight after a while but it wasn't until finally I was interested in the board of education politics if you will and what was taking place and the fact that I had three children in the school system and the fact that I was very active in Kiwanis and in fact I was the past president by then. I think I was president probably in 61 or 62 of the Kiwanis Club and so it came to pass that I decided to run for the board of education.

(I) Now what year was that?

(N) That was in 1963 and I ran "for the board of education for the first time in February, 1963 and I was successful. In fact, the mayor or former mayor of Teaneck was Frank Hall. Frank Hall ran against me in the board of education and if I hadn't defeated him, he might have been on the board of education and never would have gotten to the council but because I defeated him on the board of education, I think the following year or two, he then ran for the council. 

(I) Who were your running mates?

(N) LaMar Jones and Seymour Herr. The three of us ran together on a ticket actually that was combined afterwards. It didn't start out that way but it ended up that way. And quite frankly at that time, Frank Burr had backed Frank Hall and the reason being he felt that it wasn't right to have two Jews and a black on one ticket. He wanted a balanced ticket.

(I) So Frank Burr backed Frank Hall because he wanted a balanced ticket.

(N) Frank Burr backed Frank Hall and LaMar Jones and Seymour Herr because he wanted a balanced ticket. Someplace, I used to keep clippings but that was what came out in the then BERGEN RECORD. And LaMar Jones was the first black elected to the board of education and LaMar and I and Seymour Herr came on the board in February of 63 and those were the days we met in the big boardroom and things got a little hot and heavy because of the issues of the integration of the school system. More specifically at the time, it was the issue of what to do with the Bryant School which was getting a very dominant ... what to do with the Bryant School and the northeast section of town which, by the way, I had many, many patients who all of a sudden were leaving town and many of them stayed with the practice although they moved out of Teaneck and many just were lost to Teaneck and to the town and to myself as patients. I am talking about some of the streets on Voorhees. You know, it was an all white neighborhood that slowly started to turn and then it became practically, as it is today, all black. But in those days, that was the issue and Weinberger was the president of the board of education and I remember he backed me up against the wall in the executive session and said, you will vote for me for president. He wanted it very badly. In any event, I did vote for him because I felt that he was doing a good job from what I had seen and running the meetings and so on and he was an associate professor or maybe he was a full professor even then at Fairleigh Dickinson, the new University that had come along and Seymour HERR and I am trying to think of the gal's name that was on the board. Ruth Hendrickson was on the board but it was quite a board then and in that, I think it was the following year, in 64, things finally came to a head where we had tried several things and some of the things that I voted against quite frankly like voluntary busing to provide transportation for those who wanted to go on their own and all of these plans were really a sham. It wasn't going to do the trick and they knew it. They were just playing for time so to speak. And there were a lot of hot sessions and executive sessions. This was before the Sunshine Law was put into effect and we could really get together in executive session and thrash about what we were really about to do.

(I) Were you responsible for hiring Harvey Scribner or did he come before you came on the board?

(N) Harvey Scribner, I think he was just hired when I came on the board. He was relatively new on the board but he was quite an individual. I remember whatever suggestions we made, he would pullout a #10 envelope and write it on the back of the #10 envelope and that was the last we ever heard of it. That was his way of operating so to speak. But Aubrey Sher then became his administrative assistant in those days and I knew Aubrey from the Kiwanis Club and we had, I thought it was a good working administrative staff. They were attacked by those people who felt they were trying to ruin the school system and so on and people that were anti-integration quite frankly and the times I think in America were such that there was a lot of turmoil about these things. The Brown vs. the Board of Education at the time had been passed on by the Supreme Court and the laws were pretty well defined and finally in 64 they developed the courage to say, OK, we are going to put it on the agenda and we are going to vote and it was a plan that Harvey Scribner had put forth and felt very strongly that in order to really do the job, that we would make a central kindergarten out of the Bryant School which meant that all of the children in the Bryant area, which I thought was somewhat unfair but went along with it. And there were some issues there where I voted against the rest of the board of education. In fact LaMar Jones even voted with me. I think there was initially I felt it was unfair that the Bryant School should be the only school and that all of the children of the Bryant district, would have to be bused elsewhere and all the kindergarten children would be bused into the Bryant School. We had come up with a belt plan, I forgot what it was already, I think it is in TRIUMPH IN A WHITE SUBURB covered that.

(I) Excuse me Dr. Bell. Wasn't it a sixth grade first before it was a kindergarten school? .

(N) Yes, you are right. Central sixth, right. Where all of the children in town would be bused in and the first five grades would be bused out. Kindergarten stayed.

(I) Then the kindergarten came the following year. And that was the other school, the Washington Irving.

(N) That was a year or two later when we had to incorporate Washington Irving as well but there was a plan there, they called it the belt plan, because I tried to push through something that I felt was fair and I don't even remember what it was but it was in TRIUMPH IN A WHITE SUBURB where I had proposed something and I had some support on the board of education. In fact, LaMar felt as I did and then we voted pretty evenly on these things and I'll never forget, in 1964 when we voted the central sixth grade, we had to move the meeting into the auditorium of the high school. Were you there? Well, we had to call the police. Anyway, the crowd was such that we had to use the auditorium of the high school, we had to call the Fire Department, Police Department in order to make sure because it was an overflow crowd. They estimated it at over 1,500 people around the auditorium. It seemed like many more. And when we finally made the proposal to convert the Bryant School into a central sixth grade, and we took on a vote, half the people were applauding; the other half were shaking fists at us. And I felt like I was sitting on a lit powder keg quite frankly. That's the best way I can describe it. It was very, very frightening with the people that we knew were detectives from the Teaneck Police Department and uniformed policemen running up and down the aisles trying to keep order and keep the people from, who were getting quite enraged at those who did not want the change in the school system, who were anti-busing and so on, and as a result of that, the following year we got Harry Warner elected to the board with Paul Margolis. I think it was following that session that they came on the board. I don't recall the exact year but those were the years when the elections came initially, they were very anti-busing and anti-integration so to speak. Feelings ran very, very high in the community amongst that particular segment particularly and they, living in the West Englewood section, had quite a following. They didn't want the Whittier School which had a halo over it to be upset by any central sixth grade or any other changes and so on. So those were interesting years. In fact, following that, in their election, I found myself in the minority on the board because then Andy Frasier came on the board with a couple of others that came on and I don't recall all their names but they were, I would say, to the right of everybody else on the board of the liberals that I felt were on the board. People like Joe Coffee who had been on the board, went off, he had moved out of town and had taken a job at Eisenhower College and people like, who was the minister who passed away?

(I) Van Ort. He never was on the board.

(N) Not Van Ort. There was another one that was on the board who was a Lutheran minister.

(I) Oh, did he die?

(N) It was McHanna who was a member of the board as well and I really, the dates escape me as they came and went because we had such a turnover, Jay Greenstone carne on the board in those years, it was Coffee, Greenstone and Confer I remember one year they ran together and were successful because there was this

(END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1 - BEGIN SIDE 2)

... went off the board who were really there just on one issue and that was anti-busing of whatever and however they could not reverse the trend once it was done because the courts would not permit it. Other towns were going through turmoil where we had relatively, other than the little in-fighting with the various people and so on, I think it went relatively smoothly as far as the schools were concerned. We had some good strong principals. I forgot the name of the one that he was a member of Kiwanis who was a very strong principal and that's why he was put in Bryant School originally and we brought in some strong principals. Big tall guy, I forgot his name. Dark hair.

(1) Emil Massa.

(N) Massa, right. He was a member of Kiwanis as well. So we really got to know all of these people and the problems they had had with various parents and children and various other problems that they would run into. Now over the years, as I said, the school system, I got involved, I was president of the board of education in 1968/69 I think it was. Two years I was the president. And I also got involved with the state board of education and the county boards of education and in fact I was president of the county boards of education in 73/74 before I went off the board in 1975 so I had served twelve years and one month and I got a very good opportunity to observe other school systems. School systems where their budgets were defeated. I would go in with the county superintendent of schools who was then Archie Hay and Archie Hay and his assistant was Joe Di something or other, anyway, I think he became county superintendent after Archie Hay but we would go into a school system and review their budgets and try to make suggestions and if the council couldn't come up with what to do with it, we were the ones that would finally set the budget for that township. And I became secretary of the state school board association so I got a broader view of the entire state, not just Teaneck. When I was president of the Teaneck board, I brought certain experiences to the board from the state and from the county level as well where I was active and it was very interesting because I got to know other presidents and other board members from throughout the county. At the time, I think we had 75 school boards although some of the school boards had no children or no school system. Like Little Ferry had no school system, they sent all their children to another adjoining district like Midland Park I think and they had six children. But the had a board of education. I think they had seven members at the time. We had nine on our board. But those were the times that we were inherently active in our temple, I was, remained active until two years ago in Kiwanis. Times have changed. All of the clubs in town whether it be Kiwanis or Rotary, all have dwindled somewhat. We used to meet finally after meeting for many, many years in what was Delia's on Queen Anne Road, then we met in the Inwood Manor for many years which was a fairly new structure in those early years and the City Club still meets at the Inwood Manor to this day. So it has changed in the complexion in that it has become more of a retired men's club now than an active business club.

(I) So you were off the board of education after twelve years and one month. And then where did your interests take you to?

(N) Well, in 1975, when I went off the board of education, quite frankly, by then Ann Mercereau had come on the board and I am trying to think who else was on the board when I left, but in my last year on the board, I felt like whenever they had a problem, I felt like I had the answer and it was too pat and they had to learn from their own errors. If I would give them the answers, oh here comes that old guy again that's been on the board forever and of course now they're the old members of the board because Ann is still on the board and she came on when I was on the board so she's served many, many years. I guess she is beyond, she has served more years than I have I think on the board of education. Sort of found a home there. She liked it. She was a teacher in New York and even when I was on the board, she enjoyed the prestige in being a member of the board and finally president of the board and so on. I could tell you some of the things that took place on the board in the early years even though we had what I considered some, they weren't really dissidents, they were members of the board who had different views like an Andy Fraser who some thought, I won't, I can't confirm that he was a Bircher but he did have at one evening when we had a board of education meeting in the high school, I see all these American flags allover the place and they had a big table in the foyer of the auditorium with all kinds of booklets. So I went and I looked at the booklets and I heard about it but I never had an opportunity to purchase one and I purchased the book of the Birch Society and they were having a meeting in our high school auditorium and nobody knew that they rented it out to them. But Andy was very active in that. That was prior to his coming on the board. I learned of that later on. But they had a meeting in our high school so it wasn't remote, there were a lot of right wing people who felt that they wanted to stop the people from taking over the town and so on and it is something that we, I felt we had to learn to live with. Something that we had to accommodate because it was the right thing to do. The people were entitled to equal education, they were entitled to other things. Quite frankly, if you looked at the scores and statistics instead of the kids in the school that were the better achievers bringing up the others, you found the others bringing down the better achievers. Those were the actual statistics that counted.

(I) Why? What's your opinion?

(N) My opinion? Well, I think that more than the school system, the home environment was very, very important. Quite frankly, we had a lot of broken homes, we had children that were coming into the school system, and we knew this and we didn't stop it, Scribner knew it and the police department reported it to us, we had families that were bringing kids over from New York and they were living with families in Teaneck just because the Teaneck school system, to get them out of the New York environment. They had no mother or father in Teaneck, they were living with cousins and things of that sort and there were quite a few of them and coming from that type of background, these, many of these youngsters had problems that they brought with them and it wasn't really the controlled environment that might have been ideal for an integrated school system. We had many that came from broken homes with no parent, certainly no father image, this was very common. Where they had problems we tried to bring the parents in, ultimately you might get a working mother in and they had large families, many children in the school system and unfortunately they did not have the home environment which helped them such as you had in the middle, upper middle income bracket that most of the white families brought their children to school with. That isn't to say that we didn't have some white children with problems as well from broken homes and so on. This is always a problem, in the school system as well as socially and otherwise at home but the actual statistics were such that while we started out on a premise that everything would help and equalize out, we would help bring up, and I am sure it did help many of the black children who may not and those who came from broken homes, we did not pursue it. We knew it on the board of education. We did not pursue it and try to throw them out of the school system because we felt that it was important that they have an opportunity so we sort of looked aside. Nothing was done about that.

(I) OK. Let me ask you a question. In your opinion, do you think that the word liberal has (inaudible) but do you think that the liberal teacher at that time in those years contributed to the lowering of standards?

(N) Well it is hard to generalize I think. I am sure that we had some teachers who felt that they were in an elitist type of school system and they rejected the idea of integration quite frankly. Unfortunately, when we tried an affirmative action on our own to seek out good black teachers on paper they were fantastic. One year I think they recruited twelve black teachers. Aubrey Sher and Harvey Scribner and I don't remember who else went down south and west seeking out and interviewing black teachers and they came back with glowing reports of the wonderful candidates that they had to the board of education and of course the board of education had to approve their recommendations and we approved all their recommendations and they started in September these new teachers and I think by February only one was left. They had the most bizarre stories. One died; one was picked up on drugs; one just disappeared; and one whose credentials were so great, it was found that the credentials were all falsified ultimately. And it is unfortunate because again, you can't generalize. It just happened that in those years, obviously there were those who were seeking to better themselves and made a very nice appearance on paper and they should have had all of the credentials that they presented. But the credentials were not a true picture of what they really were. They came from small black colleges; they came from areas where they were deprived in many ways but they didn't know it. They thought they were in the best schools that existed at the time. And when it came to the standards that we had, they couldn't measure up to it unfortunately. And this is something that I find in education because as you asked before, what did I do after 75, I got interested back in my profession again which I had dropped out of for twelve years and was teaching again and got on the Admissions Committee.

(I) In those twelve years you fixed my teeth as well as serving on the board.

(N) So I got interested again in the State Dental Society and I became chairman of the State Legislative Committee for the Dental Association of New Jersey where I ultimately helped build the New Jersey Dental Association because I had learned from my years of lobbying, techniques of the school board association vs. the New Jersey Education Association which is the number one lobby in the state. I learned many things. I had been down on the floor of the state legislature in Trenton on many occasions trying to block some bills and trying to pass other bills which were more favorable to the school systems whereas the New Jersey Education Association was only interested in teachers and bigger salaries and less work days and things of that sort. So I was on the other side of the fence there but I learned about the legislative process which I brought to the New Jersey Dental Association and they then formed, at my suggestion, a political action committee and it is now rated as the number two lobbyist in strength in the state of New Jersey. And the legislative committee, of course, has been successful because of the PACT group and I showed them how to meet and to entertain our legislatures and how to get them to understand the dental problems of the state of New Jersey and that is of the patients as well as the dentists. It got to the point that we were able to get bills through the Senate 80-to-nothing and through the Assembly by large majorities and even to the state. They understand dentistry better and because of my success with the Dental Association, in 1979 I was appointed by Governor Byrne to the State Board of Dentistry and I am now in my second term on the State Board of Dentistry. I was reappointed when Byrne just went out of office and I've been serving under the Republican administration. We are part of the attorney general's office as a state board member and those are where my interests have been. With New York University where I presently hold a clinical associate professorship in six prosthetics and occlusive studies and I lecture there. I am on the Admissions Committee at New York University. And I also started a company doing research in dentistry.

(I) I am interested in your starting a company. This I want to hear about.

(N) Well that came in 1979 actually we started the company but it didn't really get off the ground until about 82 and now it is a big growing company with tremendous potential and in any event, we were continued to be active in our Center where ultimately I became, I was first vice president of the Teaneck Jewish Center and I didn't take the presidency because I thought that for all the time and effort involved that it was a maddening situation. It took more time than my board of education, my family and everything else put together because unfortunately I didn't have a second or third vice president behind me. There had been some things that happened and there was no vice presidency. It was just the president and I and everything fell on my shoulders and I had had some outs with I didn't agree with Rabbi Washer at the time on some issues so I resigned as president and I stayed on. They asked if I would stay on the board of directors and ultimately, a couple of years ago, I was made a life member of the board of directors of the Center for my service there. But I had served in just about every capacity in the Center. I was chairman of the personnel committee, the religious committee, I was chairman of the education committee, I ran the Hebrew school for a while. I was the superintendent of schools if you would. I hired and sat in on classes and rated the teachers and that's some of the things that kept me interested after the board of ed.

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